French unfinished ore cars and end of projects

Ron Wallman

Hi William,

First thing get those exams! I ended up reading at night, weekends and holidays although exactly why is not known but could be due lead poisoning as child via household lead water pipe.

There are a lot of problems with boilers for me. Firstly I am now retired and money is a big problem. A trip to Britain cost over £20 in auto route tolls alone, add channel crossing, petrol and one or two nights B&B comes in as a major expense. The last time I went to Britain I literally came back with 727 kg of various purchases on board to spread costs over a huge number of items. It was nearly the maximum allowed for the car. So just nipping across is possible but costly for me.

Eurostar were able to get me to St Pancreas and back for 60€ using early morning trains and senior fares but I missed the return train as the security people did not like what I was carrying back with me. Harassment and failed connection in Paris because I was an hour late has resulted in never travelling by Eurostar again.

A boiler would be quite big for the ALCO. I had one estimate tell me that a five inch version would be exactly the same as 3 ½ inch because the bigger gauge merely had inside frames and was described in Model Engineer. The maker simply closed his mind to what I tried to tell him. I found a possible readymade boiler candidate and went to Britain although the vender stayed at home until I telephoned and he wandered into Guildford to agreed RDV making me wait over half an hour on a timed trip from France. I had the money, cash. The boiler was badly made, had no history or certificate. It still had cobwebs in the firebox from evident long storage. I recognised which locomotive it was for an amazing slip up for a man connected with a major ME supplier. No history or certificate made it an illegal sale and I put the money back into the bank. It was advertised again and I expect it was sold.

Here, in the Paris basin, we have very hard water. I took some of the “fur” off the toilet with a screwdriver when we bought our present house and after years of treatment I finally got everything more or less clean. I have a water softener and magnets on the supply pipe but this still gives deposits that I deal with.

Coal supplies here are difficult to find here and what I have seen is mostly sulphurous slack. I have a modest stock that was sold in Derby area in Britain and got here by no less than four different vehicles all doing part of the journey.

Getting boiler certification is very necessary to obtain insurance. Even in private use if there was an accident I would probably end up having to sell our house and contents to pay legal costs and compensation. In France you do not get any help until you are literally in the street and have nothing to eat. There is no permanent social security. If you become unemployed payments reduce with time to zero and you are expected to sell all assets until you have nothing. That means nothing other than the clothes you are wearing. The French authorities regard a miniature train as a fairground amusement and require the same stringent tests, certificates and insurance. At Porte Versailles we could never offer children rides when I was with a club because of these regulations. Special cover had to be arranged for the exhibition as it was. Boilers here are a legal minefield.

I thought of compressed air. I thought of using a diver’s cylinder as there are sizes that could fit in a dummy boiler at high pressures thus giving a considerable range compared with a simple receiver at say 8 bar say 117.567 602 03 pound/square inch. It takes ages for my compressor to pump up a small receiver that I have and my Don Young designed railmotor will barely get once round our 82 metre circuit on a full charge. Mind it goes at one hell of a speed if allowed. The problem is massive inefficiency, lack of heat and range especially if I go visiting.

When you compress air it gets hot and releases condensate. Most people know a bicycle pump plugged with a finger and pumped vigorously will nearly burn the blocking finger. When you release air pressure it takes heat from its surroundings. At the rates that I would be releasing air pressure on the ALCO it could freeze the cylinders. The system works but very careful attention has to be made on low temperature air supply and as it is cold, a low volume. Remember hot air engines work by the massive increase in volume when air is heated. So cold compressed air has a low volume compared to what you compressed to put in. I believe I am correct in saying the trams in Nantes had heaters exactly for these reasons. Have a look at the preserved compressed air driven tramcar driving platform; it is by far more than just a tap.

One last consideration: I cannot recall seeing a miniature compressed air locomotive described in any of the model engineering journals over the past forty years. It is a good idea to remember that very little is new in mechanics. It makes sense to search for others who have attempted similar ideas in the past and finding why they failed. It could be that modern techniques or materials can now support a design.

The name of the game is engineering meaning to bring about. The first thing I did as a professional designer was to search for a readymade solution and if not found, to ascertain why not before designing anything.

So thanks for the ideas but I think that an electric motor will have to do in the immediate future.

All is not lost. My oldest son (23) is much more interested in a live steam locomotive than a spoof. The ALCO has everything in place to convert it to live steam. It could be that the ALCO will get its boiler but not in my remaining life time.
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Ron

SillyBilly · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject:

Thanks Ron, that was a very interesting and educational read. I hadn't realised how comparitevely lucky we are in this field in Britain. I'm sure it'll be a stunning model anyhow.
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Cheers,
William
Joys of Life Railway Revival
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Ron Wallman · Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:46 pm Post subject:

I have been very busy this winter and the ore cars waited for a long time. I decided that I would wait until the equinox before venturing out onto the forum in the hope that I would have something to report.

I have got all nine cars to waiting for the weather to improve so that I can paint them outside. This week would have been ideal there but for a bitterly cold east wind. There are small details such as cutting screws to length and making the clevis pins that allow the body to pivot but by and large the job is done.

The first built wagon I painted the body a nominal grey and other iron work in general black. The paint I used looks decidedly blue compared with what is available now. I am experimenting with colours or lack of it by painting number two all grey. This makes the under frame stand out well where as the first built is difficult to see the work I put in as black tends to hide everything. The result looks very much like what I believe is a works photograph that I have. I also note that many modern day industrial wagons are all one colour. Number two is the batch leader and I use if to experiment with before committing the other eight.

I have taken photographs of a single car and the entire rake to show current progress. Note the chains are not vertical in the second shot due to wind. The car lacks its chain retainers and there are details such as nuts missing that will be fitted after painting. I also added a shot of a car in its tipped position.

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Ron

Ron Wallman · Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:09 am Post subject:

Hi,
I have had trouble with logging in and after waiting for an hour and other fooling about the system finally accepted me again.

I have completed the batch of ore cars in respect that all that remains is some paint touching in adding nuts and cutting down over long threads.
I decided to try painting the cars in just a mid-grey rather than the first built grey with strap work picked out in black and a black chassis. The first effect is that chassis detail can be easily seen where as the first built becomes a dark space and the details of the structure lost. Industry might paint up a prototype for sales but the run of the mill would probably be all one colour. I think the rake shown looks like an industrial train waiting next duty. In fact paint was hardening off so the chains are left free to dangle.

The DZ wagon still needs finishing but I think I will give wagons a rest for a bit as I think another locomotive might be interesting.

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Ron

Jim · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject:

Great to see you back on the site Ron.
Things have been so quiet on this site for so long it was really a bit of a worry.
The wagons as always look very impressive and capable of some serious work too.

Jim
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'If you're a friend of the captain you wipe your hands on the sails'

Ron Wallman · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:43 pm Post subject:

Thanks Jim. As mentioned it was the silly season as the system held me out and I still do not understand why it suddenly decided to let me into the forum again.
I have had a Modelworks Britannia in my workshop as the eighty seven year old owner could not get it assembled and asked if I could have a look at it. It weighs 112 kg so not exactly an easy pick up in the first place.
Oh boy what I have found wrong so far would make a model Engineer magazine in itself! Not even the leading bogie was correct back to back being 120 mm against 119 mm so I had it apart and reset it.
I ended up reboring the piston valve chambers because they had been bored twice on different centres. It took me six weeks to find out where air was leaking because it never occurred to me that the bores could be out of round. To this day I do not what made me look into the bore and notice a rather nice little black crescent shape between a dummy valve I had made and the chamber wall. I got a 12 thou feeler gauge into it! Even so something is still leaking and this might be an internal leak within the fabricated cylinder block. Anyway I made new piston bobbins and I tried PTFE rings that seem reasonably successful. The valve ports are just round evidently just drilled through and possibly why I cannot get a nice sharp exhaust release.
The biggest error has been the return crank that was held on by four M2 cap screws. I tried running the loco on compressed air and it shook the bench wildly and did not want to run unless considerable pressure was used. I found the valve gear fouling and following notes by another builder started to relieve the offending shapes, then one of the return crank M2 screws sheared.
I found amongst the box of bits that there was indeed a spare set of return links to different length, fresh crank pins and a clamp on type return crank. There are still quite a lot of bits that are unknown as to exactly what they are and the new exModelworks owner says he does not know what I mean by the term nomenclature. It means going looking through all the individual instructions but this does not help as there is no concept of real or imaginary parts.
An imaginary part is a subassembly made up of real parts. In other words if you take an imaginary part to bits all you have is a set of real parts all that have identification numbers that is usually the drawing number. Of course once in bits and every part identified the imaginary part no longer exists hence the expression. Some packets are assemblies and what they consist of or should consist of is lost.
So I thought just fit these valve gear parts as the problem had been seen but the new parts evidently not fitted. On fitting the valve gear fouled and I decided the return crank was too long.
By brief is “Just try and get it to go.” With no drawings and other builders suggesting the motion bracket was in the wrong place I arrogantly cut the return cranks and brazed them up in a jig. In fact I made them still too long by reason of derived measurement but reasoned that too long meant I could cut again where as too short meant a lot more trouble.
In fact this gave me a hell of a lot of work for nothing.
Read this: I assembled the valve gear and guessed the phase position of the return cranks and then the valve setting for both engines. The engines started immediately and would easily run on 14 PSI or 1 bar and stall was about half this. Jim; it took me seven hours of fiddling with DTI and the like to decide that I had guessed all the settings spot on hence seven hours of wasted effort. It is either that or my methods are at fault because I could not reliably detect error. The locomotive with its wheels in the air just ticks over nicely and even my oldest son who is the person to notice any slight error remarked that it sounded sweet. The springs are mega tough so I do not think there will be much difference with the wheels on the road. Even if there is then the valves will need easing back slightly to correct and this can be done later. The return crank appears to be the correct length yet not what I thought it should be. There was something that led me to shorten by only half of what I thought and for once I landed on my feet. With 14 PSI left on line the locomotive will reverse solely by reversing its gear and run.
The blast pipe is just an end cap with a hole drilled in it and the blast a barely audible chuff. I think whilst set up it will alter this to a nice internally tapered thing and see if with the petty coat pipe if it is possible to make the thing go CHUFF!
I could not get the forum site to accept a movie but if you request Friend status on facebook with me (Ronald Wallman with photo of an old gester with glasses) you can see a crude movie showing the train going with the uncompleted ore cars and another brief view riding the train. Of course you must remember that this is a model of a slow trundling industrial narrow gauge train and even the Welsh highland Railway for all its fine track is limited to 25 MPH as a “mainline” and many places there are limits well below this. You might enjoy seeing my movie views.
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Ron

Jim · Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject:

What can one say? This is supposed to be a hobby Ron, but it sounds like an endurance test getting the Britannia to the state you now have it.

I have just returned from a 2500km round trip to the 21st Annual Australian Miniature Traction Engine and Road Steam Rally held this year in Queensland. The point of all this being that I discovered the new heat proof paint on my Burrell's chimney blistered as soon as the engine started working. The problem I've been told is that the etch primer is the culprit as it's not heat resistant and so bubbles. I can easily fix that, the problem for me is that I've used the same primer on the smoke box of Boadicea!!! As you can imagine I would much prefer a nice shiny black smoke box on my labour of love to a bubble and crinkled dark grey finish. It is a hobby isn't it?

Jim
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'If you're a friend of the captain you wipe your hands on the sails'

Ron Wallman · Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject:

Hi Jim,
Many years ago I remember using motor cycle black paint that was meant for cylinder heads. In Britain this was called Bike Pot Black and was a satin high temperature black finish, one coat no primer and had graphite in it. It is supposed to take 450°C. It was under the brand name of Hermetite.

It is possible that a bike shop will either be able to supply this or know a brand that is similar.

You sound as if you are doing some long journeys!
Ron
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Ron

Jim · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject:

Hi Ron,

Thanks for that suggestion re the heat resistant paint I shall follow it up.

Unfortunately long journeys are often a fact of life here but if you take it easy and split the journey with overnight stops in the many excellent caravan parks the danger of fatigue induced micro sleeps which is the real killer, is not a problem. I can't say the same for the petrol bill! Still the rallies are great fun. This year some folk from South Australia did round trips of close to 5000kms. Canberra 'luckily' is more or less half way to most east coast events.

Back on heat resistant paint I've also been told that the smoke boxes of locos tend not to get as hot as a traction engine's by virtue of the fact that they are not working under the same loads for often extended periods.

An electric motor in the tender, Hornby style with a good sound system and a smoke generator could be a solution Rolling Eyes

Jim
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'If you're a friend of the captain you wipe your hands on the sails'