Five inch gauge Wheel Profile and rail notes

Ron Wallman · Five inch gauge Wheel Profile and rail notes

I have been checking about wheel profile and Rideonrailways has the SMEE( or practically so) profile on http://www.rideonrailways.co.uk/page24.html .

I note Rideonrailways have clients with steel bar rail problems and wheel wear. I have had one riding trolley wear its steel wheels hollow but it took over 1000 km to do so and re-profiling did not have the slightest observable riding effect on my 7 metre minimum radius curves. I am using 6 x 30 black mild steel with tie bars every 200 mm.

I also note they say aluminium rail does not rust. This is not true. Rust means corrosion and not just the red oxide associated with steel. Aluminium alloys form an oxide usually a blue-white coloured powder. (Aluminium oxide is tough and used as an abrasive.)

Aluminium alloy is also subject to electrolytic wastage and this can be surprisingly fast. This electrolytic action can be set up by using say steel fish plates and fastenings especially with moisture in the form of rain and just a trace of acid gained from air pollution. You will get a very big surprise if you get old fashioned washing soda anywhere near aluminium or its alloys.

Whilst someone without a lathe might find wheel re-profiling or replacing tyres difficult I would much prefer this than replacing rail. I also regard a five inch gauge railway fan without a lathe as handicapped. I bought my first lathe in 1966 and I would not dream of being without a lathe.

If you are using very sharp curves then I would alter the cone angle to say 3° as this would allow the wheel set to ride a curve with a greater differential between the two wheel peripheries and increase self centring. I do not know as I have not got sharp enough curves to try it.

The use of sharp curves is more like tramway practice so a lot can be learnt from tramway practices.

Such folks might do well to adopt standard modern tram practice and have some wheels independently free. I have seen great writings on why this would be fatal but none of these people have ridden a modern tram or if they have, they have not realised that some of the wheels are independent.

If you doubt such wisdom go and have a good look at tram crossing frogs in towns such as Bale or Zurich and other systems where the trams ride on their wheel flanges on one side only to reduce crossing wear and noise. The difference between flange periphery and tread periphery is about 6 mm more per millimetre of radius (or 2pi) difference no matter how big or small the wheel is and that includes five inch gauge. As a tram flange is about 15 mm we are talking of 94 mm difference in a revolution and surely would lead to a noticeable lurch to one side but unfortunately it is not evident and the trams continue to ignore science throughout the system with unbelievable frequency and speeds. There is a shot of a tram crossing on flickr.com/photos/selyfriday/1341489492/. You can see the passage marks in the bottom of the groove showing the cars ride on their flanges in this case both sides. flickr.com/photos/89246112@N00/2080639450. shows only one side rides on the flange.

It might be useful to record that all self steering wheel sets on classical British trams were either removed or locked because of increased wheel and track wear.

I hope this helps.

Ron

Jim

I tried the link Ron but the page was 'Not Available'

A copy of the Australian AALS wheel profiles can be seen on David Head's Rail Page Help Section. The standards are for 7.25" coarse but the principles could be useful.

http://www2.nmit.vic.edu.au/~DVR/minihelp/useful.htm

Jim

Ron Wallman · Five inch gauge Wheel Profile and rail notes

Hi Jim,

There is something strange as I tried going direct from the reference I gave and got page not found. When I went via search engine to “Rideonrailways” then “On railways” on their site I got the page instantly. I recopied the address and again got the page.

As I went copy and paste at all times I do not understand why it did not work. The route via Rideonrailways seems to work so you could try it as described.

Regards

Ron

Jim

Hi Ron,

The link still wouldn't work for me so I deleted the 'html' from the address and 'bingo' I was in!

http://www.rideonrailways.co.uk/page24

It's a nice site with some very interesting information.

Cheers

Jim

Ron Wallman · Five inch gauge Wheel Profile and rail notes

Hi Jim,

Good! You have managed to find the site and the basic wheel dimensions used in Europe.

Off subject but one of my joys of life is http://www.isengard.co.uk/index.htm . Again you might do well to take the last characters off if it does not open. This site is the Welsh Highland Railway unofficial news site. If you have not come across the Welsh Highland or Festiniog railway before these narrow gauge railways are going to over load you as there is so much going on.

Regards

Ron

Jim

G'day Ron,

As before I had to delete the .html. from the address before I could find the site. What a lot of activity!

I must confess that we have not been on any of the Welsh Narrow Gauge lines. For some odd reason our travel plans always seem to fall into a 'black hole' each time we have gone to Wales.

Maybe next time, daughter and grandchildren permitting.

Jim

SillyBilly

I might be a bit late here (and in the nicest possible blunt way), for future reference the reason the links were not working was because you had put a . to close the scentence after entering the link, like so:
http://fiveinchgauge.myfreeforum.org.
This does not work because the computer thinks the link closes with a . , what I do to overcome this is enter the link, then a space, then a full stop, like so:
http://fiveinchgauge.myfreeforum.org .
Thanks, I've edited your posts so the links work.