70036 Boadicea

Jim · Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: 70036 Boadicea

I've attached a photo of the current state of progress on my 5' gauge model of Boadicea. The next stage is to build the boiler but I tend to work on things as they take my fancy so I might actually move onto the cylinder blocks instead.

Ron Wallman · Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: 7036 Boadicea

Hi Jim,
It is nice to see another new member on the forum.
The front of the Brit looks very much as I remember them.
I passed my childhood living overlooking the Camden bank opposite the carriage sidings signal box just outside Euston by the burrowing junction. Britannias often worked the Irish mail. On a bank holiday weekend The Irish mail needed double heading and two bankers and up to 21 on climbing the 1 in 70 bank from a standing start. How that fitted into Euston I dare not ask. The noise and smoke was beyond what anyone can understand today. It made me partly deaf in later life. You may be aware that two Britannias survived; Britannia and Oliver Cromwell that has recently returned to steam.
It looks like a great start.
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Ron

Jim · Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject:

Hi Ron,

Thanks for your comments re my Britannia. I became aware of the two restored Britannias via John Johnston's 'Britannia Builder's' website at: www.geocities.com/britanniabuilder/

If you haven't already discovered it it is a great source of information and data regarding the Britannias including very detailed photos taken while John was helping out at Loughborough.

I recently bought 2 part built Doug Hewson BR Mk1 coaches from a modeller in New Zealand. They are beautifully made and constant distraction from working on 'Boadicea'.

Kind regards

Jim

Ron Wallman · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: 70036 Boadicea

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the reply.
I had found the Brit site because I came to hear of a chap now 86 who bought a Modelworks kit and they went bust before he got all of it. He is in north London and I am literally in another country and overseas.
It takes about six hours driving plus checking in, waiting, loading, the crossing time could be two hours by boat or thirty five minutes via tunnel on board the shuttle train(more expensive), disembarking, about 450 km with London traffic at one end, crossing tariffs, motorway tolls, currency change, remembering that road signs change from metric to imperial( speed limits), trying to remember to drive on the other side of the road and scream at other road users in a different language.
I got to see the job and it is a long story as to how this happened. I found amongst all the packets he had most of the “missing” parts bar the dome. The site gives Blackgates as a source. There is at least one other involved in helping out living about forty minutes away but they are not familiar with steam locomotives. I knew enough to recognise parts and where they went. I made up three rolling road shoes so the loco might be tried out on air but they are still here close to Paris. There is going to be some more scheming to get those shoes to him as postage is a rip off and we are all “senior” citizens.
May be it is the way the photo was taken but I a bit worried about the wheel profile that I see on 70036. The SMEE profile has a 20° slope on the flange from the tread and a large 1.8 mm blending radius. It could be a trick of the light but I see the left hand leading bogie flange as practically perpendicular and not a lot of root radius. The danger is that the flange could grab and climb out of the rails. At least one model locomotive is reported to have flipped over due to poor profile as this grabbing took place at speed. It could be you have very gentle curves and a lot of straight track hence a different profile. In Europe we do not have much space so curves are generally tight and the SMEE profile is practically universal. I would prefer to voice fears rather than be smug after something happens. You may need to get opinions from others.
The Britannias looked good but they were not good engines. They had a problem with wheels shifting on the hollow axles that led to withdrawal of the entire class until this was cured by plugging the axle for the length of the wheel fit. A further precaution was to replace the fluted coupling rods with plain ones as they were reckoned to take twice the force to put a permanent set in them. You will find early photographs vary according to age in this respect. You have the choice of fluted or solid rods may be you know this.
I hope these notes are of interest. Best of Luck and I hope you enjoy building 70036.
Ron
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Ron

Jim · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:11 am Post subject:

Hi Ron,

You are quite right about the tread/flange profile however that was the way the wheels were machined when I was handed the castings to 'do something with it'. I did consider re-machining the wheels and fitting steel tyres but decided that I already had a big enough task as it was without making it bigger. There has of course been much debate here on the issue of wheel profiles which generated a lot of interest and a fair bit of heat as you could well imagine and of course the debate spread to super elevation, strap rail versus prototypical flat bed rail or bull head rail and so on.

Over time I have managed to build up a fair data base on the Britannias and the modifications made to them over their period of operation. The reason I settled on 'Boadicea' as the prototype for my model was that I had some very clear photos of her to show which modifications were applied and when plus I rather liked the name too. A lady with attitude!

Your journeys to the UK sound like a full on adventure. At least the drive to my club while just on 300kms is on the same side of the road. The only problem faced is boredom and the danger of nodding off.

The collapse of Model Works is a tragedy indeed. A chap out here was one of the victims with the added problem that he's here and they are over there which makes it hard in terms of negotiating some sort of settlement.

Thanks again Ron for your thoughts and comments they are much appreciated

Regards

Jim

5inchgaugetrains · Porter Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 19

Beautiful loco Jim
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Paul

Jim · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject:

Thank you Paul.
I spent today working on the hinges for the smoke box door which have to be fabricated. I think I've nutted out a way.

Jim

Ron Wallman · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: 70036 Boadicea

Hi Jim,
I am glad you know about wheel profiles. It is good news as to me you have got your eyes open and probably 70036 will get built and built well.
I have had arguments over profiles myself with a one loco club that claimed to know better than the SMEE. I wonder just how many wheels have been made to SMEE standards and are running. In the end everyone can make what they like. The most important thing is to enjoy the hobby. I see visiting and running on other peoples lines as a great experience hence wheel standards are important.
You might be lucky and come across hydraulic pipe either in a scrap yard or a supplier that is not as snooty as the French suppliers are and will sell off cuts. This would give you thick enough rings to make tyres. It saves an awful lot of machining tyres from a disk. Tube like this is used to make hydraulic rams and an old ram might give you tyre material.
I pointed out to my dear wife that the statue of Boadicea opposite Big Ben is said to be the original dam fool woman driver as she is clearly signalling left and one of the horses is going right. Shades of the tombstone that reads, “Here lies cyclist Emily Kite who signalled left and turned to her right.” I had better not record what my wife said as most of it was in French.
I just have to remark that smokebox hinges are usually on the right but I know three locomotives that had left hand hinges and they were all 0-3-0 types built by Hunslet. Yes, it is true and those locomotives shifted somewhat more quickly than one might think.
Regards

Ron
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Ron

Jim · Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:49 am Post subject:

Hi Ron,

On the topic of 'Boadicea' my wife took one look at the statue of the good lady in her chariot and muttered ' hmm, now I know why you picked her' I hadn't actually noticed which way she was indicating to turn Rolling Eyes

With regard to wheel profiles and general standards it could be useful if the SMEE wheel and track standards were to be published on this site. They would be an invaluable guide and reference point particularly for those undertaking their first loco or carriage project.

Members in other parts of the world need to consult the standards applying to their local area. For example in Oz the AALS (Australian Association of Live Steamers) has published a set of standards that covers wheel profiles, track standards, drag links, brakes etc, etc. It is an indispensable reference document and probably little different from those of SMEE.

While on the topic of reference articles would you consider a post on how you did your lovely castings? I for one would be very interested as I have a number detail castings missing from Boadicea's inventory of parts.

Many thanks for sharing your thoughts on these issues Ron

Kind regards

Jim

Ron Wallman · Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: 7036 Boadicea

Hi Jim,
Boadicea statue depicts the queen with her two daughters and is a rather romantic impression. The axle sabres are not an English feature. As to the horses, one is heading towards Westminster Bridge and the other towards Parliament Square but she has not let go of the reins so I say she is signalling and not raising her arm in despair French style. Besides she would not have despaired, she would have slung a spear at the offending animal. The horses knew this and why she is not shown with a whip. I stood my wife to the rear and right of the statue easily done by approaching on the other side of the embankment (roadway and same side as Scotland Yard) so she could not see the left hand horse. From this angle my story would appear to be true. Of course I am much more attracted by the statue on the other side of the river by Westminster Bridge and the same side (east) being the Lion from the brewery that was on the site now known as the south bank, (Hic!)
I will have to start a new thread if you would like to see and read how I do casting. This is only loosely related to the forum but if members request I am willing to help. I have to go to a lot of trouble to get hold of foundry sand so supplies are going to be a big problem especially finding out what these products are called in XXXX where I understand you live. Casting is a massive subject. I can show what I do but it is only a small part of what can be done.
I am not sure I could put SMEE wheel standards on the forum as I am not a member and my tables come from “The Model Engineer’s Handbook” hence I might fall foul of copyright. In my view magazines and the like are not interested by model makers but making money and might well try chasing me purely for money.
Regards
Ron

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Ron